The, good girl, label is not about being morally good, the problem with being a, good girl, is that at the end of the day, it doesn't work. It doesn't work for anyone. This isn't an anti-morality conversation; it's correcting our idea of what’s good and what’s right.
Download and listen to the full interview
Sitting in the guest chair today on the Transform Your Mind Podcast, is Kasia Urbaniak. Kasia is the author of “Unbound: A woman's Guide to Power”. Today, we are going to be talking about “How to ditch the, good girl label”.
Bio
Since founding The Academy in 2013, Kasia has taught over 4000 women to radically increase their power, agency and influence. Using practical tools, Academy graduates transform their lives by breaking the yoke of ‘Good Girl’ conditioning. They step boldly into leadership roles within their relationships, families, workplaces, and wider communities.
They become adept in the art of verbal self-defense against bulldozing, bullying, and gaslighting. They make bold, life-changing asks of the people around them in a way that feels good to the person being asked. They can hear “no” without getting flustered or giving up, and use resistance as a way to build intimacy and partnership.
Introduction
Myrna: Kasia, let's start off by asking you what was your journey into founding the Academy, teaching women the foundations of power and influence? I read part of your bio that you were once a, dominatrix, I would love to hear about that.
Kasia: I found myself with an unusual set of training. I explored various spiritual traditions and wanted to transcend this world. The one that spoke to me because it seemed the most practical and magical was, Taoism.
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I was a Dominatrix while pursuing monastic education
Now, while I was pursuing my training and pursuing monastic education, the ironic part was there was no way for me as a girl growing up in New York City to be able to afford such things without getting a job that would pay me a lot of money in short bursts. So, I was working as a professional, dominatrix, in dungeons in New York City and then flying off to meet with teachers to convince them to teach me all the way up to mountain tops in China.
This lasted for the greater part of a decade. This straddling, absolutely insane split personality education, where I felt guilty about one when I was doing the other. What started happening was these extremes ended up merging when I started diagnosing people's bodies as a, Taoist, trainee. I started going into deeper states of meditation and noticed that my training as a, dominatrix, allows me to notice the power dynamics , I started seeing similarities in my work as a, dominatrix.
I was paying attention to human beings and started to understand power dynamics the way you study martial arts. I began to teach this power to women, I do not teach as a, dominatrix, and I do not teach as a nun.
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After this wildlife of extremes, of desiring absolute purity and devotion while going into these wildly psychologically strange, weird and interesting places with other humans, I started noticing that I was changing. I saw all my friends around me and all the people in my life (the women especially), living in a world of assumptions and superstitions.
Women are communicating with their bodies all the time
I started noticing that women didn't realize that they are physically broadcasting and communicating all the time. That their power magnetic. You could say more submissive, but it's not submissive at all.
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The, good girl, label is not about being morally good, the problem with being a, good girl, is that at the end of the day, it doesn't work. It doesn't work for anyone. This isn't an anti-morality conversation; it's correcting our idea of what’s good and what’s right.
Myrna: You had a lot of nuggets and you're very right. When your publicist approached me and she started off with the, dominatrix, thing, I pushed back right away until I read the full bio. I understood what you were trying to say. You're giving women the power of choice. Women can still be submissive and powerful, right?
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Are you a People-Pleaser or a good girl
Also, I know that being a people-pleaser and being a, good girl, doesn't get you anywhere, people walk all over you. We've got a saying in my country “if you lay down like a doormat, people are going to walk all over you”. So, I understand you help women break the yolk of the, good girl, conditioning. So, tell us why specifically the label of a, bad girl, is beneficial because I’m interested in hearing your spin.
Kasia: Good girl, conditioning has a very long history and it comes from the agreement that we make not as spiritual and personal agreement, but an economic agreement of marriage. We have a deal and there's nothing wrong with even holding that deal today, but the deal is “I will let you lead, but you provide for me”. So, up until very recently, a woman who had ambition, opinion, a vision and desires couldn't express it as an individual. The best she could do and the best way she could fulfill her ambitions was to marry. The behaviors around the, good girl, are the behaviors we're calling, good girl, conditioning.
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What is good girl conditioning
Such behaviors are basically the behaviors of how to be marriageable, how to attract and keep a good man, how to qualify to marry the most economically promising man – given that you can't have a job, you can't get educated, you can't read, and you're not allowed to leave the house (in some countries).
So, women learn “I don’t want to be a burden”.
- How to be resourceful because if you're the economic provider, then I have to be able to make big things out of little things (be resourceful),
- Be moderate in temperament,
- Not be too attractive so as to not get competition, but not to be noticeably unattractive, not to stand out in this way or that way,
- Women are not to have too much sexual desire, in fact not to have too much desire at all.
Actually, it's not just being accommodating, harmonious and warm, but also not having a voice essentially, they're from women who are like I‘m not a, good girl, I don't need anyone, I‘m fine.
The modern day, people-pleaser, is an outgrowth of the, good girl. Why we call her an outgrowth like a sister of the, good girl, but she's still the same woman because even though she believes that she can have her desires, she has to go for what she wants by herself. She never asks anybody for help, she never burdens anybody, she does it all. She is the feminine and the masculine. She is the alpha female.
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Most of the women who come to my school are like this because, they're very successful. They have families, they have careers and they have everything they want and they are exhausted and are furious; they have to do it all.
Myrna: it's like the superwoman syndrome.
Good Girls learn to say No
Kasia: The problem is that men hold all the cards. Women don't have the same experience as men because, men don't do it all the same way. When they are in positions of leadership or have a career, they have support that the women in their same place do not have.
The issue with, good girl, conditioning is – you can say “I‘m an, independent woman, I push back and I stand up for myself. I have learnt how to say No. You can identify with someone who doesn't have, good girl conditioning, but the truth is the conditioning comes out so quickly that we barely catch it.
We're programmed and it's in our subconscious and that is why I founded the Academy with my partner Reuben.
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Bad girls learn to ask for what they want
Myrna: Why do you say specifically that the, bad girl, label is good? How do you transform them from being a, good girl, to a, bad girl? What does, bad girl, really mean?
Kasia: Okay. We got three things, bad girl, is the first. The first of the three and the other two are really important elements of the, bad girl. So, the first is a really simple exercise and I want to set up the context of this exercise. Bad girls learn to ask for what they want.
I have the women that I work with this exercise which ends up being more difficult than it sounds. The intention is to write all the things you feel make you a, bad girl, onto paper. What we want to do is start opening Pandora’s Box in the safest way possible.
We start with a sentence completion, its part of a sentence you fill in the blank and you repeat it, You write “if I were a, bad girl. I would do ,,,,,,,,,,,”
We use, bad girl, specifically because it brings you back to that younger age where you start learning what you're supposed to like, not like, what you're supposed to think etc.
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Clear out the bad girl closet
The purpose of writing all these terrible things is that, the things we didn't even know we put in the, bad girl, closet start coming out. When I explain part two and three, it's going to become even more apparent how this works so you start opening the, bad girl, closet.
Myrna: I‘m sure a lot of it is around sex and what, bad girls, do and what, good girls, do not do.
Kasia: Some have ideas and desires of sexual liberation and some have ideas of standing up for themselves. Some feel that anger is bad, that, good girls, do not get angry. Good girls, is part of the submissive conditioning or why, good girls, don’t get angry.
The, good girl conditioning, doesn’t even let you become aware that your man is disrespecting you when he calls you names. Maybe he just treats you like a maid and then one day you wake up and start thinking; this is disrespect.
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How good girls get respect
Kasia: If you want respect, you never ever say I want you to respect me! That's communicating there's something wrong with you.
The moment you are voicing a complaint, you are creating an atmosphere of defense. We don't want to be in defense mode, we obviously want to be in offense, mode.
Myrna: So, how does someone do it, how do we state our desires in offensive mode?
Kasia: The moment you ask them to do something specific, the power dynamic has changed. The issue with women is that their energy is too inward:
- I‘m hurting,
- I'm complaining,
- I don't like this,
- This is a problem,
- Look what you're doing to me,
- I am the victim,
- I have no power,
- You have to fix it,
- It's all your fault,
- You don't respect me etc.
The moment you start directing their actions, making those requests that would resonate with you as respect, you are in the dominant position. The moment you start making them in control of your happiness and telling them they're doing a bad job, you are in defense mode.
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Is there such a thing as a High Maintenance Woman
Myrna: I heard this a lot that men say, “Oh, she's too, high maintenance”, but you're also saying there's no such thing as a, low maintenance, woman just women who are not bold enough to ask for what they want.
Kasia: So, high maintenance, is a fad. No woman is, low maintenance, but when men complain about women being, high maintenance, what they're actually saying is not you are too much work. What they're saying is I never got the instruction manual on how to treat you as a woman.
Men just got used to ignoring and tolerating the complaints of women, because they never really understood what makes them happy. Women weren't asking for the things that would actually light them up, give them orgasms, make them feel supported and empowered. What men got was a bunch of vague things.
You find a man who's getting specific instructions for the first time; he's like a little boy in a candy store like – yes, what can I do next? He feels competent and takes care of his women like he takes care of his car!
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A woman's guide to power
Myrna: Tell us about your book, it's called “Unbound: A Woman's Guide to Power”.
Kasia: The book is a step-by-step training manual. It definitely talks about how to ask and how to get off the spot when you're being bullied and bulldozed. There's a lot of how-to stuff there also. I teach women how to create allies out of all the men in their lives. The book is also a journey through how to get all of the support that you need from the people in your life to make your actual dreams and desires come true.
Not the ones that you think are attainable and not the ones that you think are socially acceptable. A huge part of the book is breaking the, good girl conditioning.
Myrna: How can those listening and watching in TV connect with you? How can they get a copy of your book and get your get information about your Academy?
Kasia: The easiest way to find out more is to go to the website www.weteachpower.com.
We have an announcement on the site of all our classes. Also, there are tons of free resources and videos and things that the interested listeners, viewers and readers can engage with. The book is available everywhere books are sold. Penguin Random house published it and there's my Ted talk that I delivered to 10,000 people live as well.
Myrna: Thank you for being so in-depth about understanding the mindset of women and the mindset of the power. What is your social media handle?
Kasia: @realkasiaUrbaniak on Instagram.
Conclusion
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Thanks for tuning in and until next time, blessings.
